Did Ron Paul lie about being “drafted?”
UPDATE: I have been told through comments that Ron Paul did receive a draft notice and chose to join the Air Force, as an option he was given, in order to avoid service in the Army as an enlisted man. So, it is apparently okay for Ron Paul to use a legal means by which to avoid being drafted into the Army but not for Newt Gngrich. Well, at least he isn’t hypocritical or anything.
Let me say at the beginning that as a 20-year Air Force veteran who was raised by a 30-year Navy veteran who served in the Korean and Vietnam wars, I have no problem with legal and legitimate draft deferments during the Vietnam War (not deferments like Bill Clinton finagled). I also don’t believe that military service is for everyone and there are other respectable ways in which one can serve his country and I believe service in the National Guard to be honorable and important.
Now, having said that, this is the second time I have seen Ron Paul reference being drafted into the Air Force and it has bothered me each time because he is either lying, engaging in hyperbole or just plain senile. But this time he has used a reference to being drafted as a hammer with which to bash former Speaker Newt Gingrich, a man I am not supporting for president but cannot sit back and watch get unnecessarily bashed with lies and by lies.
Here is an excerpt from the latest story by CNN concerning Ron Paul being “drafted.”
Paul questions Gingrich’s draft deferment
Posted by
CNN’s Kevin Liptak(CNN) – Ron Paul issued a new hit on Newt Gingrich Thursday, suggesting his rival was incautious by taking a hawkish stance on U.S. defense while having deferred military service himself.
“He’s probably as aggressive with the military as anybody,” Paul said on Fox News. “He supports all the wars in the Middle East a thousand times more than I would. But you know in the nineteen-sixties when I was drafted in the military, he got several deferments. He chose not to go. Now he’ll send our kids to war.”
The fact that Ron Paul would use a false claim of being “drafted” in that type of attack in light of my research makes me ill. Notice that last sentence referencing the 1960′s and how Newt Gingrich chose not to go. Is that intended to imply that Ron Paul has a higher moral position on matters of war since he apparently “went” somewhere with a thinly veiled reference to Vietnam (service in the 1960′s)?
The first time I heard Ron Paul make a reference to being drafted was during one of the early debates when he claimed to have been drafted into the Air Force. As a retired 20-year Air Force veteran I really didn’t think the Air Force had ever used the draft. So, I did a little digging and found this article at Air Force-Magazine.com, an online journal of the Air Force Association:
Most draftees went into the Army. A Presidential panel studying the military manpower issue reported in 1970, “The Navy and Marine Corps have occasionally issued draft calls to meet temporary shortfalls, but the Air Force has never used the draft.”
So, the Air Force never used the draft, contrary to assertions made by Ron Paul on at least two occasions in this Republican presidential primary. But there is something else of significance in this Air Force-Magazine.com article with respect to Newt Gingrich’s draft deferments:
Meanwhile, Hershey and the Selective Service had a new problem on their hands: too many potential draftees. The Army could not possibly use all of them.
Between 1954 and 1964, the number of men eligible for the draft increased by 50 percent while draft inductions dropped from 250,000 to 112,000, respectively, in those years. “We deferred practically everybody,” Hershey said. “If they had a reason, we preferred it, but if they didn’t, we made them hunt one.”
From 1955 on, Hershey and the Selective Service were active in “channeling” men, via deferments, into vocations of national interest. These included science, engineering, medical professions, and teaching. Hershey described channeling as a new major task for the Selective Service.
Newt Gingrich was 22 years old when the Vietnam War ramped up in 1965, graduating college and enrolling in a master’s program. He pursued his advanced degrees and became – of all things – not just a teacher but a college History professor as the Selective Service was “channeling” young men to do.
Importantly, Newt Gingrich could not have enrolled in college in order to avoid the Vietnam era draft as many did during the mid to late 1960’s because he was already in college before the Vietnam War started and the draft accelerated.
According to Wikipedia, approximately 96% of men eligible for the draft during the Vietnam War were deferred for one reason or another.
But, there’s more. Gingrich was married in 1962 and there was an unofficial Kennedy doctrine regarding the draft and married men wherein they were put at the bottom of the draft list until LBJ changed it after Kennedy’s assassination, also according to Wikipedia.
But, enough about Newt Gingrich and his draft deferments, let’s get back to Ron Paul and his military service.
The entry for Ron Paul at Wikipedia states that he began his military service in the Air Force in 1963 before the Vietnam War and only served on active duty for two years.
In 1965 just as the war was ramping up and President Johnson sent in the first combat troops Ron Paul chose to leave active duty and serve out his time in the Air National Guard, which reduced the possibility of a deployment to Southeast Asia, and finally left the service all together in 1968.
Now remember, even though there was no war in 1963 there was still a draft and Ron Paul was already out of college and medical school, unlike Newt Gingrich, so he was not eligible for a college deferment although to be fare, he was still at the bottom of the list as a married man according to the unofficial Kennedy Doctrine.
So, did Ron Paul enlist in the Air Force, as many did, in order to avoid being drafted into the Army and then move to the Air National Guard in order to avoid war in Vietnam?
There is one way Ron Paul could have been “drafted.” Every supervisor I worked for when I first went into the Air Force had received their draft notice from the Army and, without opening it, ran to the nearest Air Force recruiting office and enlisted in order to avoid the draft. Is that what Ron Paul did?
Did Ron Paul dodge the draft, lie about being drafted or is he senile?
December 17th, 2011 at 9:58 pm
Oh, ye of little faith.
He was drafted. The letter said he could either report to the army as a private, or volunteer and get a commission as an officer, pick his branch of service, and practice medicine (he was just out of residency, and what they really wanted him as was a surgeon.) He volunteered immediately. He doesn’t quite like to call that volunteering, however, although he did sign up for another tour after the first.
December 17th, 2011 at 10:00 pm
Dr. Paul received a draft letter from the army and was told he could either enter the army as a private or volunteer and be an officer (flight surgeon). He chose the latter and volunteered with the air force.
December 17th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
So, he was not drafted into the Air Force but chose it over Army service. Got it, thanks.
December 17th, 2011 at 10:33 pm
You have a lot of nerve bashing a fellow veteran in favor of a coward draft dodger.
OIF 07 Combat Veteran for Ron Paul 2012
Bet you love Jane Fonda movies too!
December 17th, 2011 at 10:36 pm
Ron Paul stated that he was sent draft papers but he chose to sign up for the flight surgeons job instead of the one that he would have had if he didn’t.
December 17th, 2011 at 10:37 pm
Why are you deleting the comment? Your attacking a veteran and defending a draft dodger? is that not the point? you have alot of nerve attacking a fellow veteran in favor of a coward
OIF 07 Combat Veteran for Ron Paul 2012
December 17th, 2011 at 11:20 pm
I haven’t deleted a single comment and never do. But I am used to false allegations from the Ron Paul Borg Collective.
As far as “attacking a veteran and defending a draft dodger,” someone with a legal and legitimate deferment is not a draft dodger and Benedict Arnold and John Kerry were veterans.
Ron Paul’s story is possible, of course, but just doesn’t make since. Drafting someone into the Army and then “giving them a choice” to join the Air Force doesn’t fill the Army’s needs and defeats the purpose of the draft. The draft was intended to fill Army needs and not be a recruiting tool for the Air Force.
And, it would have been highly unusual for Ron Paul to be drafted in 1962 or 63 before the Vietnam War. Before the lottery started in 1969, local draft boards called men between the ages of 18 ½ to 25 years old first and only 201,325 men were inducted in 1962 and 63 combined. Ron Paul was 27 years old, already outside the usual age for a draftee, and a married man in 1962 (Kennedy put married men at the bottom of the draft list unofficially at first and then by executive order in 1963).
December 18th, 2011 at 6:28 am
Thank you for including John “Ho Chi” Kerry and Benedict Arnold in the same sentence. Both deserved the hangman’s noose for TREASON. However Arnold felt compelled to go to England to live, though it be in a cowering obscurity, and Kerry becomes a Senator for life and even runs for POTUS! Any wonder there is a lying muslim marxist from Kenya in the WH?
December 18th, 2011 at 6:57 am
I agree that it was not an choice given to most. But given the fact he was a medical doctor made it a very desirable option for the armed forces to offer him the option to serve in that capacity.
December 19th, 2011 at 1:09 pm
I was surprised to see the results of the Fox News Poll showing Ron Paul leading in who the pollsters thought would win the Iowa caucus vote. While, I consider myself a conservative and lean more towards libertarianism, I am nonetheless, quite frankly concerned about the possibility of Ron Paul winning the primaries and–God forbid–possibly becoming president of the United States. My concern comes as a fellow physician who believes that Dr. Paul suffers from a real psychological disorder characterized by megalomania, narcissism, delusional thinking, paranoia, antisocial characteristics, and (abnormal) feelings of persecution. Now, I am not a psychiatrist, but I did minor in psychology as an undergraduate and most physicians have been educated in the behavioral sciences and have been trained to diagnose common psychiatric disorders. Furthermore, it is estimated that the incidence of Narcissistic Personality Disorder occurs 34 times more often in medical doctors than in the general population.
Over the last several weeks, I have been studying Dr. Paul as well as his followers through his television appearances, his letters (and Newsletters), social media, and video clips from You-tube and have noted a very disturbing pattern of Dr. Paul showing all of the psycopathological characteristics of a genuine “cult leader” and his followers showing all of the characteristics of a cult. I have studied cults and their leaders and have outlined the “five basic rules” of being a cult leader. I have also indicated the psychopathology associated with cult leaders as they form their cults:
The number one rule of a cult leader is to polish and cultivate a persona that you–and only you–have been chosen, anointed, or have achieved spiritual, political, or intellectual enlightenment above all others. This shows features of megalomania, delusions of grandeur, as well as narcissism.
1. Dr. Paul has tried to cultivate this persona for over 30 years as the “outsider” and enlightened one within the “Washington establishment”.
2. Dr. Paul has publicly stated that while he believes in term limits, they do not apply to him because (paraphrasing) “there is no one good enough to bring in to replace him”.
3. In 2010, Dr. Paul commented to his wife that he would run for President in 2012 “if things were happening so quickly and fast in our country and we were in a crisis period…and needed somebody…with the knowledge he as, he would do it”.
4. Dr. Paul presents in interviews as haughty and stern and seems to be lecturing rather than engaging in conversation.
The next rule is to appeal to the disconnected, disenchanted, and disaffected in society who are often intellectually, politically, and emotionally immature (i.e., younger people)and convince them that while you have been “chosen” (or more likely self-selected) you are (almost) human just like them and can empathize with their disenchantment and discontent. This shows more tendencies of narcissism and ego-feeding by someone who sees them self as inherently better than others, but with a need to surround one’s self with those less fortunate or less “enlightened”—a “savior complex”, if you will. Often times, the empathy and compassion shown to the acolytes is not genuine (which is a feature of antisocial personality) and is only used for the ulterior motive of personal gain in sex, money, or power (or sense of superiority) or combination thereof.
1. Dr. Paul has always had a relatively small number of fanatical followers who have mostly been drawn from younger people in society. He routinely targets schools, colleges, and other events where younger people tend to be.
2. His “populist” message today resonates with many, besides young people as social, geopolitical, and economic turmoil are perceived to be worsening and more and more people become disenfranchised, disenchanted, and discontent.
3. Dr. Paul’s ploy of not accepting Medicare payment for his Medicare services or a congressional pension—while on the surface seem like noble gestures—are really means to portray himself as “one of us” and morally higher than his colleagues.
The third step is through indoctrination, coercion, repetition, and/or isolation to exercise mind control over your flock of followers by relieving them of their ability to think rationally (usually by not allowing them to test your theories or have access to “the outside”)—but not emotionally—while simultaneously convincing them that your ideas—while plausible (but generally at the far fringes of mainstream thought) are the “light and the truth”. This shows more elements of antisocial ego-building in that the leader is now getting others to surrender their will and rational thought against deep seated norms of the self and/or society while they align their thinking towards that of the leader. Furthermore, this shows the disordered or delusional thinking of the leader who generally has delusional thinking of the world and how it operates and he or she is the only one with the power to fix it.
1. Dr. Paul plays on the emotions of his followers by carefully crafting plausible—and easy to understand– (but highly improbable and at the fringes of mainstream thought) scenarios out of complex geopolitical, political, social and economic issues that are at “top of mind” of our society and that tug at some of our most basic interests (individual freedom, economic freedom, nationalism, sanctity of life, torture, and war) and evoke very basic human responses such as fear, anxiety, anger, disgust, and etc.
2. Dr. Paul’s views on national defense, monetary policy, isolationism, and constitutionalism are considered by most to be outside of the mainstream of rational political, social, and governmental philosophy.
3. Dr. Paul has consistently repeated his messages over 30 years and as noted above, tends to target younger followers who are easier to indoctrinate.
The fourth rule is to proselytize not only your “enlightened philosophy or beliefs, but also to spread forth the word that while you and your followers are “the enlightened or chosen ones”, there will be naysayers and those that will persecute you and the movement. This clearly shows the elements of paranoia and persecution by the non-believers.
1. Dr. Paul and his followers are very defensive when challenged on the issues and their beliefs. Instead of engaging in earnest discourse, they tend to attack and accuse the “non-believer” as persecuting them for their beliefs or of being ignorant and unenlightened in their philosophy.
2. Dr. Paul and his followers display a common paranoia and decry a “conspiracy” of the right, the political elite, and the left against them and their “lofty ideas that will save America”.
3. Dr. Paul has consistently offered the explanation that others are simply “out to get him” by taking “tongue-in-cheek comments out of context” and things that were written in his newsletters (but purportedly not authorized or written by him).
4. Dr. Paul comes off as defensive and angry when challenged in interviews and becomes condescending.
The fifth and last rule is to convince your followers that it is only through blind faith and rigid adherence to your philosophy—no matter how foreign it may be to self or to society—that that blind adherence or “loyalty” is the only path to salvation, redemption, or the reparation of the “perceived” ills of society. This is more antisocial ego-building and the tightening of control over the flock.
1. Dr. Paul and his followers play the same monotonous drum beat about “smaller government”, defense of our borders, monetary reform and fiscal responsibility, “stop the wars”, and national isolationism over and over again like a Gregorian chant and mantra in a blind and stubborn adherence to their fringe philosophy that is the only path to saving America despite practical, rational, philosophical, and real world evidence against and “common sense” opposition to their “zany” ideas, Messianic messages, and Utopian philosophies .
Some authors would add another step which is to construct a “doomsday scenario” for your followers, such as “the end of the world, World War III, or economic collapse as the great incentive to motivate the followers to adhere to and spread your teachings. This, again, would show delusional thinking as well as narcissistic thinking, especially if the leader and his or her followers will be the only ones saved from the impending calamity.
By the way, I too am a Vietnam Era Vet (Army)and also served as an officer in the medical corp for the National Guard during Desert Storm and there is no way in hell I would ever support Dr. Paul to be my Commander-in Chief!
December 19th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
Not to mention Mitt Romney dodged the draft by going to France.
December 27th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
Paul served and Romney and Gingrich did not. Paul is no chicken hawk but Romney and Gingrich are.
thank you
Mike
December 30th, 2011 at 10:10 pm
“So, it is apparently okay for Ron Paul to use a legal means by which to avoid being drafted into the Army but not for Newt Gngrich. Well, at least he isn’t hypocritical or anything.”
I applaud anyone who avoids being enslaved by their government. The difference is, one person abhors government power and foreign military adventures while the other is a chicken hawk. The hypocrisy is Gingrich’s alone.
January 1st, 2012 at 5:22 pm
If the draft notice gives you a choice, then either decision reached (whether to ‘volunteer’ or comply with conscription) is a result thereof or neither decision is. You can’t have it both ways. Conscription is exactly that regardless of whether their is a veneer of voluntarism, and patina of choice.
Ron Paul served. Since that time he has come to the conclusion that all conscription is bad, even if it is veiled (like giving a draftee a ‘choice’ between being an infantry grunt and ‘volunteering’, which, even if it is more comfortable to be an air force officer than an army private, is no choice at all, and is still conscription, involuntary servitude, in short, a draft).
Gingrich on the other hand was too busy banging his teacher and sticking his hand in the public treasury (worked for a public university) to serve in any branch of the service, but somehow he still supports the government’s ‘right’ to conscript (i.e., enslave) others.
What is Paul guilty of: Using the word ‘draft’ consistently with the dictionary’s definition, but not necessarily with the technical definition used in government literature (i.e., propaganda) giving conscription statistics.
What is Gingrich guilty of: Cowardice and hypocrisy.
And what did you expect? That the “Ron Paul Borg Collective” would NOT come out in defense of their candidate when someone smears him by spouting half-truths and splitting hairs?
One more thing: The Air Force is unconstitutional, which is one reason they do not OFFICIALLY draft. The Navy and the Army are both specifically mentioned in the Constitution. The Marine Corps and the Air force are not. But the Marines were put under the direction of the Department of the Navy precisely because they were not mentioned in the Constitution, whereas the Air Force is an entirely separate branch, in spite of the fact that it also is not mentioned. Because neither the Air Force nor Conscription are technically legal, if they were to somehow be combined, it would endanger the Air Force’s status.
January 2nd, 2012 at 10:11 am
What we are seeing in this thread is Ron Paul supporters defending his lies. Paul and his supporters are very good at trying to change the meaning of words and show how everyone else is either not smart enough to understand how great Paul is, or holding others to a standard Paul will not abide by.
Isn’t it amazing that the Paulbots say Paul took a legal path in his life and then accuse others of cowardice when they take a legal path as well?
January 4th, 2012 at 3:04 pm
I don’t follow the logic by which you claim he wasn’t drafted. He got a letter, which required him to enter the military. He was given a choice – be forced into the army, or chose to go into another branch. He had no choice except to enter military service. Compulsory military service is being drafted, no ifs, ands, or buts.
January 4th, 2012 at 3:34 pm
BTW, if he had instead said “While others were being drafted, I volunteered to join the military,” would you consider that to be more accurate?
January 4th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
I don’t follow the logic by which you claim he wasn’t drafted.
That’s because no one said he wasn’t drafted. He wasn’t drafted into the AIR FORCE.
When he claimed he was drafted into the AIR FORCE, that was a lie. A small lie to be sure, but one without a purpose. So why make that false statement?
January 5th, 2012 at 7:40 am
[...] “when I was drafted” line is troubling. Paul served in the Air Force and as Steve Bussey points out, the Air Force has never had a draft. So, what is Paul trying to say, that he was [...]
January 5th, 2012 at 8:47 am
My husband graduated high school in 1959 and college in 1963. He then entered medical school graduating in 1967. He received deferments while he was in medical school and immediately upon completing his residency was commissioned and sent straight to Vietnam where he served as a medical officer. He was the first group of Osteopathic physicians to serve in the military. As far as deferments for being married — my husband was married and had a child as an undergrad, a second child while in medical school and a third during his internship. I would prefer a president — Commander in Chief — with military experience. Splitting hairs about Ron Paul being drafted is just stupid. He SERVED. He did not continue deferments ad nauseum, fag up a phony medical problem or go to Canada. He SERVED and I respect him for that. I also have high regards for Rick Perry! When questioned the last presidential election go-round candidate Romney answered questions about his military service — lack of service — as well as his healthy strapping sons, none of which have served — he gave an interesting answer. His response to the military service questions about himself and his sons was that he served a Mormon mission for two years — in Paris no less! And that his sons all went on Mormon missions as well. I never thought doing mission work was a substitute for military service. It doesn’t equalize. Thank you for your service Ron Paul and for your service Rick Perry! I support Governor Perry over all the GOP field for his positions on all issues — as well as his MILITARY EXPERIENCE!
January 5th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
@Lou. So, if he had said “I was drafted, and went into the Air Force,” it would be truthful, but since he said “I was drafted into the military,” the difference is enough to call him a liar?
I’ll say it right out front – Lou, you are a liar.
You said “When he claimed he was drafted into the AIR FORCE,” which is a lie. The truth is he didn’t say that – he is quoted above as saying “…I was drafted in the military…”
Now, are you going to admit that you’re lying, and with greater deception that Dr. Paul? Don’t be a hypocrite, now.
Seems to me that Dr. Paul was being entirely truthful. He was drafted (which simply means compelled to serve) into the military. Which branch he ended up in is a separate matter.
January 5th, 2012 at 10:32 pm
@Mike,
While Steve posted the comment as “drafted into the military” Paul has also said “drafted into the Air Force.”
I realize that you would rather deal with any other issue than that, but that is okay by me.
As I said, Paul has a nasty habit of changing little things to be more popular with his supporters. To the rest of us who can read, it is an unattractive trait.
Apparently, you feel differently.
So be it.
January 5th, 2012 at 11:41 pm
I think Dr. Paul’s service was honorable and he did not dodge the draft. I am a Rick Perry supporter and after this 2-front war, I would prefer a veteran or someone who did serve in some capacity of military service over one who did not.
I have to agree with what Sweet Sue said about Mitt Romney. It really bothers me that he speaks of his and his sons’ missionary work as if it is equal to military service and defending our nation. He was not a missionary in a war-torn nation and as far as I know, neither were his sons. They were never in any real danger!
What I would like to know about is Ron Paul’s service as a Flight Surgeon. Was he treating young men who were serving in Vietnam in stateside hospitals or did he work as an obstetrician? His residency would have been in Women’s Health–Obstetrics, Gynecology, and perhaps some Neonatal Medicine. Since I am not that familiar with Air Force Medicine, I would love it if someone can fill me in on what he really was doing during his time in the Air Force serving as a Flight Surgeon.
January 6th, 2012 at 12:35 am
Here ya go. The truth shall set you free. You can read the truth or watch the video.
“I actually have some personal experience about the military draft because I was in the middle of my medical training during the Cuban crisis. I was a resident for a hospital in 1962 when the crisis broke out. I got a note that said I would be drafted into the army as a buck private unless I wanted to volunteer, then I could be a doctor and I could be a captain. So guess what? I became a volunteer, and I kid about that, but it was rather serious. I was not too happy about going in, but it must not have bothered me too much, because I ended up staying in the Air National Guard afterwards. I think my attitude right now about foreign policy and foreign intervention and undeclared wars has changed a good bit, and I might not have been as complacent as I was back then. But unfortunately the military draft makes young people more vulnerable, because we are not as sophisticated as we might be in maybe our willingness to stand up and ask questions about just why are we so involved militarily around the world.”
Keep seeking the truth. It will set you free!
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-02-12/ron-paul-on-the-draft/
January 6th, 2012 at 12:38 am
@Henry: “The Air Force is not constitutionsl”. Airplanes and therefore an “Air Force” were not around when our Founding Fathers wrote the constitution and when the technolgy came around the Air Force was actually part of the Army and called the Army Air Corps until 1947 whenit was recognized as a seperate branch of the Armed Forces. Do you really believe that the Founding Fathers would have written a document preventing the adoption of new technology and the evolution of our military?
@ErinA: Paul finished medical school in 1961 and completed an internship in 1962 before going into the Air Force in 1963. In 1962 he would have completed a rotating internship in the major fields of medicinn including internal medicine, OB/GYN, general surgery, possibly pathology, and maybe psychiatry but would not have specialized in any particular specialty before he entered the Air Force as a flight surgeon. The Army and the Air Force considers all GMO (general medical officers)as “Flight Surgeons”, but in reality they are basically general medical practitioners working in clinics and hospitals doing routine medical care for the troops. He left the airforce in 1965 and then completed his OB/GYN residency which qualified him to be called a gynecologic surgeon.
January 6th, 2012 at 3:50 am
Thank you, Dr. Vigil, and Doug Richerson, for your good information on Dr. Paul’s military service!
January 8th, 2012 at 1:11 am
If they send him a letter saying you are drafted and must report to the army as a private unless you immediately “volunteer” to another branch then you are an idiot to say he wasn’t drafted. The military said he was signing up or else. Especially with a medical doctor they are not going to handle it the same as an uneducated grunt. They can’t just round up all the young men in a town and get the doctors they need. And as yet another fabricated war he should have gotten out as soon as possible but he chose to stay another tour so your snide comments are totally unjustified.
January 8th, 2012 at 1:17 am
I don’t believe RP, sorry. I had a good friend whose husband was drafted prior to medical school. Instead of being drafted he enlisted, did the medical school years and then was required to give (volunteer) 2-years (it may have been more) as a physican to the Army since they deferred his service. I believe that had to be what RP did–he finished his med school and residency and then completed the service. Why would they draft a 28 year old anyway? It makes so much m ore sense to draft a 20-22 year old and then for him to defer the service. Is there any way to verify any of this?
January 8th, 2012 at 1:42 am
My brother joined the army in Dec. 1965. He and a friend found out when their draft number was coming up and joined before they were called. They were both 19 years old. I find it hard to believe that just 2 years before, they were drafting 28 men who were married with kids and just out of medical school. In fact, if I remember correctly, men where not drafted after the age of 25.
January 8th, 2012 at 3:22 am
One detail missing is that Newt was married in 1962 at 19 and his first daughter was born in 1963. He not only had the married status; he had the family status: http://marriage.about.com/od/politics/a/gingrichn.htm
January 8th, 2012 at 4:06 am
Dang Skippy, when Ron Paul cited being married with kids and drafted into the Air Force, it set my teeth on edge.
As a kid, I thought my fathers first name was Sir. He was Air Force and was passed over for service in Korea. Even with six kids, he voluteered to go. There’s very few people with the collection of metals he had.
I still have my fire-proof draft card, as required by law, from 1974.
Thanks for your service, and your most honest web site. I plan to vist again.
January 8th, 2012 at 4:12 am
Both my father and uncle were sent Army draft notices and joined the Air Force instead. Both, to this day say they were drafted into the Air Force. I think it’s common for people in that timeframe to refer to it in that manner since they had no intention of joining any military service before that draft notice showed up. They were given an option: have no choose of service and be drafted or volunteer and have some choose over the direction of your life. As a navy vet myself, I find this article a little offense since your trying to bash a veteran on something so frivolousness and prop up someone who hasn’t served at all.
January 8th, 2012 at 4:21 am
I was drafted in 1968. Every one on my fathers side served in the US Navy. There was a choice join the army and serve for 2 years or join the Navy or Air Force and serve for 4 years. Joining the Navy or Air force did not mean you did not go to Vietnam.
John McCain was in the Navy, John Kerry was in the Navy and both were in Vietnam. Ron Paul served and he could well have ended up in Nam. But that was a military decision not a Ron Paul decision. Now to Newt, as of November 1967 the selective service law changed all student deferments for anyone over the age of 24 ended. Gingrich was 24 at the time the law passed. His deferment ended. His classification also ended. He obviously dodged the draft somehow because quite simply I was drafted out of college.
January 8th, 2012 at 5:14 am
Never ceases to amaze me the crap American’s see as “news”. You, sir, should be ashamed of yourself. May the blood of all those who have been killed and injured due to our terribly flawed foreign policy drown you for eternity. Absolutely disgusting distortion of truth.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:38 am
All this talk about Vietnam, and he forgot to mention that the Gulf of Tonkin Incident was a false flag! Some people should have gone to jail over that and no one should have gone to police action (war).
What a crappy article.
January 8th, 2012 at 9:43 am
I served VN, USAF pilot. You did not get drafted into USAF. You joined. Flight Surgeons, were wanted for Doctors. Many joined to get experience. Since Paul was a gynocologist I suspect he deliverd babies. Maybe someone will ask him. He only served for two years, then went to the Guard in 1965, before or at the start of the VN buildup. Guard did not usually go to VN at the beginning.
ASK HIM
January 8th, 2012 at 12:03 pm
Ron Paul’s time served in the Air Force as a Flight Surgeon was spent to defer and diminish his medical education cost that was heavily subsidized by the federal government. Standard fare even today.
January 8th, 2012 at 1:26 pm
Ron Paul never volunteered. He was drafted. When he received his draft from the Army (Ground Pounders) he joined the Air Force and was a flight surgeon, (never in combat -I have read). Everyone knew then and now that the Air Force was a much safer place to serve than the Army. I just read where he also was heavily subsidized by the government for his education…go figure.
Now, he is bashing the younger Newt for getting a deferment, which was wrong how?? because Newt was and had been in college and had a wife and two daughters when good old Paul HAD TO GO. Sounds like Ron Paul wants to make himself sound like a patriot and make Newt look like…he’s not. Ron Paul is a senile old man who it has been shown will parse words (just like a politician) to make his opponent look bad. Nothing but the Status Quo here.
January 8th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
You used an entire post to call Paul a liar. Then you found out your research was flawed so you added an update at the top to call him a hypocrite. Nice job.
January 8th, 2012 at 6:46 pm
The Vietnam War began on November 1st, 1955.
The Vietnam War ended with the fall of Saigon on April 30th 1975
http://wanttoknowit.com/when-did-the-vietnam-war-start-and-end/
January 8th, 2012 at 7:18 pm
Not that any of this matters. The Americans made it quite clear that they did not give a darn about the heroic service of John McCain.
January 9th, 2012 at 4:59 am
@Daylo. If you defend Newt because he was in college, you have to defend Howard Dean and Bill Clinton too, because they were also in college during the Vietnam War. There goes your college defense. If you defend Newt because he was married with 2 kids, guess what? Ron Paul was married with 2 kids as well, AND HE STILL SERVED!! There goes your wife and 2 kids defense. Do you have any more excuses?
Did Ron Paul ever say he served on the front lines in Vietnam? Did he ever claim to have seen combat? If Ron Paul never served in a dangerous area, SO WHAT?! The point is, he served! The chicken hawks did not! Don’t military servicemen deserve medical care? Didn’t Ron Paul provide servicemen with medical care?
As far as the government subsidizing his education, that’s false. He paid his own way. Of course, college and med school was way way cheaper back then. It would be impossible to pay your own way today without taking out loans. Certainly not at the private schools he went to. Then again, that’s his point. Government loans for college is creating a flood of college grads with no jobs, massive student debt, and no way to pay off the debt. This is an education bubble that will burst like the sub-prime mortgage real-estate bubble.
I’ll repeat it again. Howard Dean and Bill Clinton got deferments too. If you defend Newt for getting a deferment, you MUST defend Howard Dean and Bill Clinton too. If Howard Dean and Bill Clinton are draft dodgers for getting an education deferment, then what about Newt? Dean and Clinton were against the Vietnam War, so at least they are being consistent in “dodging the draft”. You can call them treasonous and unpatriotic, but at least they are consistent with not supporting the war. Newt is pro-war and likes to talk tough, yet he never walked the walk. That is the definition of a chicken hawk, the WORST kind of cowardice. John Kerry served. Fine, John Kerry is a treasonous unpatriotic communist turn-coat, whatever they say, that’s their opinion. But at least he served in combat and scored some kills. He’s not a coward. He’s not a chicken hawk. Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Newt Gingrich, all true red-white-and-blue patriotic chicken hawks. But I’m guessing you prefer a chicken hawk as president over a hippie pacifist, or decorated war veteran turn-coat.
The perfect war veteran patriot hero was John McCain: decorated Vietnam war veteran, saw combat, POW survivor, pro-war, absolutely positively no chicken hawk here. McCain was eviscerated by Karl Rove with dirty cheap negative political attacks in the 2000 GOP primaries when he was running against George W. Bush and his “architect” Karl Rove the chicken hawk. John was called a homosexual, a mentally unstable Manchurian Candidate due to his years in a North Vietnamese POW camp, his wife called a drug addict, his adopted Bangladeshi daughter was called a black child from an out of wedlock trist, etc. McCain’s best chance to become president was in 2000. I believe he could have won and gone all the way to the White House if it wasn’t for the dirty tactics used by chicken hawk turd blossom Karl Rove. McCain was a maverick, George W. Bush was the GOP establishment candidate. What they did to McCain, a POW survivor, was brutal.
January 9th, 2012 at 1:13 pm
Newt Gingrich married a female pedophile to avoid the draft. Gingrich’s draft was to stay out of the heat in Vietnam.
January 9th, 2012 at 10:37 pm
As a fellow veteran I’m ashamed of you. The point is that Paul served, period. The point is also that anyone who claims to care about their country should attempt to serve. There is no substitute for military service. Newt and Santorum and others want to send men into harm’s way, but have never been in that position themselves. I don’t care if a guy is a line infantryman or a supply clerk in DC, once you enlist or accept a commission, that’s the last real choice you have until your time is up, and it makes you appreciate your freedom and responsibility as a citizen.
January 10th, 2012 at 7:12 pm
Someone on this thread wanting me to read a history book to learn the years of the Vietnam War. So, according to History.com,
http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/first-us-army-troops-deployed-to-vietnam-stand-down-for-withdrawal
. . . the first U.S. Army ground combat unit to arrive in Vietnam in May 1965), cease combat operations and begin preparations to leave Vietnam.
The first U.S. ground combat unit of any branch to reach Vietnam was the Third Marine Regiment, Third Marine Division, which began arriving on March 8, 1965.
Now, Dr. Paul went into the Air Force in 1963 to avoid service in the Army and went from active duty Air Force to the reserves in 1965 as Vietnam was ramping up. Was that move designed to avoid service in Vietnam?
January 11th, 2012 at 11:14 am
Hi Steve:
Is there any way you could find out who funded Ron Paul’s medical school tuitiion, was it the Airforce? As a Vietnam era vet, I do recall the war escalating in 1965 as many of the Navy Corpsmen got orders to Vietnam and my tour of duty at Bethesda Naval Hospital was extended for four months because of this. My previous husband went to Vietnam for 14 months FMF. He was in favor of the war before he went there and later on said the US should never have involved itself in it….I thought the wording “Chickenhawk ” used by Ron Paul was an extremely offensive expression in this day and age.
G. Z,
January 13th, 2012 at 10:43 pm
Having become eligible for the draft in 1965 and served six years in the Army I remember those days very clearly. First of all, we didn’t just get our draft notice in the mail clearly out of the blue. We were first given our notice to report for our physical exam, and this only came if we lost our 2-S student deferment. This was before the draft lottery numbers were assigned, so if someone got their physical notice it was fair to assume that if you passed it you MIGHT be drafted. However, the draft was only being done by the Army, and in some instances by the Marines (Navy) when things were heating up in ’66 and ’67. Considering Ron Paul’s age and marital status combined with the stage of the Vietnam War in 1963, it’s highly unlikely he was sent a notice for a physical or a draft notice. The more likely scenario is that he enlisted in the Air Force voluntarily to serve his “residency” in the military and take advantage of the generous benefits that were available to him and his family. Knowing full well that he would probably never leave the states, much less see combat, he had a nice situation serving in a military hospital at an officer’s pay grade and living in govt subsidized housing. What’s unusual is that he only served two years of active duty; the standard term of enlistment for the Air Force was FIVE years of active duty, followed by two years service in the reserves. It could have easily been the case that there was a glut of young doctors coming into the Air Force around 1965, and he was allowed to opt out of his final three years active duty to complete his service in the reserves.
Regarding Gingrich: if he was married with children and enrolled in school or teaching there was no way he was going to get a draft notice – period. I’ve also read that he’s got flat feet, and if that’s the case he would have been exempt regardless of his marital status. He was being completely truthful in the Sat night debate when he said he wasn’t eligible for the draft, and he should have made that point more emphatically. The only way he could have served in the military was for him to have volunteered and passed the physical, and even then he probably wouldn’t have been assigned to combat (because of his family) unless he volunteered for that.
If Paul is going to make an issue of military service, he needs to come clean on the details of his own Air Force service and the circumstances under which he enlisted, served and was discharged. It was EXTREMELY hypocritical of him to attack Gingrich in the debate as having dodged the draft.
January 15th, 2012 at 5:31 pm
While I do personally appreciate Ron Paul’s service, as well as ANY other veteran, it is dishonest, disingenuous and insulting to those who DID actually serve in Vietnam for RP to insinuate that he went. Look at his record. Look at his statements. He NEVER EVER states that he went to Vietnam. He only insinuates. There is NOTHING wrong with pointing out discrepancies in someone’s statements about their service. Weren’t discrepancies pointed out about John Kerry in the 2004 election? As far as the draft dodging thing goes, we should maintain a true objective viewpoint. There were all sorts of people eligble for the draft. Some people were called up and DID serve. Some people were called but FLED (Bill Clinton). Some people legitimately got deferments (possibly Newt Gingrich). Some people dishonestly got deferments. The point is to discern what is the truth and what is made up to make oneself look good.
January 17th, 2012 at 11:14 am
[...] Ron Paul lie about being drafted? By Steve Bussey Topics: Investigative Reporting I published an essay in December asking if Ron Paul lied about being drafted, and in spite of all my research the issue [...]
January 20th, 2012 at 6:58 pm
Ron Paul hasn’t lied about anything. He said he was drafted and served in the USAF as a flight-surgeon. They called him and he went!
George W. Bush joined the Texas Air National Guard in so he could avoid going to Vietnam and fighting for his country. All the evidence raises its ugly head during his time of service there. He’s a coward and a draft-dodger!
Gingrich is a coward and a draft-dodger!
Clinton is a coward and a draft-dodger!
January 21st, 2012 at 2:59 pm
The hypocrisy here is purely Newt Gingrich and his chickenhawk quasi-toughguy foreign policy……and what doesn’t make sense is your idiotic spin on the whole situation.
January 21st, 2012 at 3:02 pm
This is what we call a STRAWMAN……make claims of what Ron Paul said in order to then claim he’s a liar. This whole Vietnam line is pure 100% bogus….I’ve heard what Ron Paul had to say about being drafted….and he said he did not want to be involved with fighting and killing other people in a war he didn’t agree with, but that he wasn’t going to avoid serving. He served in the capacity of his talents, which was as a doctor. Anyone who calls Ron Paul a liar on the matter is nothing but a disgusting partisan and clearly paints themselves to be so. Ron Paul did not agree with Vietnam, but served his country……Newt Gingrich ‘agrees’ with wars like Vietnam…….but not for him.
January 21st, 2012 at 3:05 pm
Newt Gingrich doesn’t like the accurate label chickenhawk, so his sychophants try to paint Ron Paul as a liar…..here’s the sad truth, Ron Paul definitely isn’t a liar, but even IF he were…..NEWT GINGRICH WOULD STILL BE A CHICKENHAWK! Attacking Ron Paul doesn’t change the truth, kiddies.
January 24th, 2012 at 12:30 am
Henry,
There were no planes when the constitution was written, thus no Air Force mentioned. The Air Force started as part of the Army.
We all have the right to our opinions because of our freedom, protected by heroes. However, our opinions should be based in truth.
January 26th, 2012 at 10:28 pm
There existed a separate Dr. draft. All doctors who graduated in 1960 and 1961 received a draft notice from their local board. We (I was one of them) were given the option of reporting for induction into the Army or applying for a commission. My class (1960) were not given a choice of service-we were “allocated” to whatever service there was a need. I, and Dr Paul , were “allocated” to the Air Force. The “Dr draft” was a separate entity than the regular draft.
January 28th, 2012 at 6:02 am
Let’s stop all these ‘chickenhawk’ ad hominem attacks. It’s a Democrat talking point, infamously used by former Rep. John Murtha, the ex-Marine, who disgraced the name by labeling our falsely accused Haditha Marines as “cold-blooded murderers”. If no President has the right to call this nation to arms to defend itself, then FDR was a chickenhawk for responding to Pearl Harbor! Should he have apologized to Japan ala Jimmy Carter to Iran in 1979? Everyone shut it already!
January 28th, 2012 at 5:50 pm
I really hate people that are so stupid that they can’t even google to find out if they are full of crap or not. You are one of them.
All four branches of the service drafted doctors in the past.
The “Doctor’s Draft Act” is a federal statute providing for the induction of members of the medical profession into military service for assignment to the Medical Corps as commissioned officers. Under the Doctor’s draft Act, doctors are given commissions commensurate with their age, ability, and experience.
There are calls for reinstating the doctor draft again due to shortages of doctors joining the armed forces.
February 13th, 2012 at 11:54 am
Why don’t you ask him?
February 21st, 2012 at 1:27 pm
I am tired of all the wasted eggort of drones from both sides of the political spectrum who have had too much “bad tea” Truth be told, the country presently is a MERCANTILE FASCIST STATE with a non operational constitution-Anytime Mr Bussey wants to debate the facts ( NOT HIS FACTS I WILL APPEAR AND GIVE HIM A HISTORY LESSON ) Both sides have defected and it is the pscychotic
intel and military that will run this country into the ground for global banker profit-Mr Bussey must have favored that drunken crackpot Joe Mccarthy-We are in deep trouble, with false leaders both (R)(D) and the country is foundering-and it was the RepubliKans that abdicated power to the NEO CONS Game Over-
Anytime Mr Bussey
Milt Farrow
March 2nd, 2012 at 1:07 pm
One Paul sympathist said, “The point is that Paul served, period.”
I disagree. The point is that Paul has an anti- interventionist foreign policy.
Paul could have dodged the draft and still rightly called Newt a chickenhawk because Newt is the one who wants to drag us into preemptive war with Iran and others.
I believe that you should not be compelled to serve and when it is immoral to reject it altogether (e.g. like if I was drafted in to the SS or something).
At any rate Ron Paul 2012 (and to the moron who said it: no I am not in a cult).
March 5th, 2012 at 7:39 pm
I am just tired of going on websites and all I see is Ron Paul 2012!! Yea, we get it people.
March 15th, 2012 at 5:56 pm
[...] [...]
March 18th, 2012 at 12:02 am
To all of you “Paulbots” in the Ron Paul Borg Collective who cannot take legitimate questions and vetting of your candidate and feel the need to call names like little girls on the grade school playground I say bite me. As I pointed out I am very familiar with the draft, was raised by a 30-year Navy vet who fought in two wars, spent 20-years in the Air Force myself and my son is an Afghanistan veteran still on active duty in the Army. We’re asking questions and presenting evidence here. I haven’t closed the comments section to this article because I love you Paulbots showing your collective asses in public – so, thank you. And, I have written and posted updates on this issue wherein I point out even additional evidence that may be in Ron Paul’s defense but you morons haven’t taken the time to look that up.
You Paulbots need to disconnect from the Ron Paul Borg Collective and use your damn brains.
May 7th, 2012 at 12:55 pm
Your research was not thorough and your interprtation of “draft dodger” is inacccurate.
My cousin was in graduate school at Vanderbilt when he received his draft notice, and he was given the option of signing up on his own with the advantage of choice – his choice was to go to officers training.
Since my cousin served in the military as did, Dr. Ron Paul, neither can be considered a draft dodger in any sense (not since) of the word.
June 27th, 2012 at 12:05 pm
Doctors and Lawyers have the option to be commissioned as an officer if they choose to do so. He didn’t avoid anything. Who the hell wouldn’t want to start as an officer? Not to mention he chose the path which pertained to his background as a medical doctor. So he chose to be Air Force to follow his career moves.
September 14th, 2012 at 9:51 pm
Again with the Muslim Marxist ignorant rants. It is 100% absolutely impossible to be a Muslim and a Marxist. Just showing your ignorance a racism again, hillbillies.
October 9th, 2012 at 6:15 pm
where the hell do you get this seriously flawed information? you conservatives are as bad as liberals! read some actual bios on ron paul, he served in the military!
October 17th, 2012 at 7:35 am
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